, force religion. they're arguing the wiccan practitioners, look, there are chaplains for catholics and property assistants and muslims, mainstream. how about us? they're arguing there are more wiccans than many mainstream prisoners. what's going to happen? it goes back to the trial court. the california penal institution has to do the survey. and if they're right, if they're right, then the wiccan practitioners will actually get their full-time chaplain. we'll see. we don't know the answer right now. >> richard, do you agree with that? if there are a lot of wiccans, this won't be a tough argument. >> well, it's a legitimate argument, and the initial judge who heard the case said, listen, i'm not going to preclude you from practicing your wiccan whatever it is, you can do that, but we're not going to follow a full-time chaplain for you. you can get part-time chaplains to come in and see them, but we're not going to spend money in the state of california, which is already bankrupt, to hire more wiccan c